ugh.

Posted by eden at 04:03 AM on May 05, 2005

I had such a hard time this month.

Most of the time consulting with rabbis is uncomfortable, but not overly so, right? The rabbis go out of their way to make it as painless as they can: you can drop off a bedikah cloth in an envelope, leave your phone number instead of a name, and never have to make face-to-face contact. When you talk to them on the phone, they make sure to respond seriously to your questions no matter how silly, to be matter-of-fact no matter how embarrassed you are. As much as such an invasive thing can be, it's usually a pleasure.

But then there are the encounters that leave you shaking and upset, the ones that make you never want to do this again. Sometimes it's extreme, like the rabbi who failed to recognize that I was developing an anxiety disorder about taharat hamishpacha, and instead got annoyed and abandoned me in the middle of mikvah night. Sometimes it's as trifling as a rabbi who presumes more than he knows, and tells you more than you asked.

As you already know, I was still bleeding bright red on Day 5. I had tried a hefsek tahara that morning, which was pronounced kosher by my own rabbi (much good that did me.) Of course I had to start over the next day. I think I made two hefseks, one in the morning and one in the afternoon; both still had some red in them. The next morning was Friday, Day 7, and we were going out of town for Yom Tov. I decided to wait as long as possible to increase the chances that I would have stopped bleeding by then. But I was seeing brown streaks when I wiped, and was getting increasingly nervous. The last thing I wanted to do was have a shaylah over Yom Tov, without having contacted anyone in advance that I could ask.

I psyched myself up to call the local rabbi when I got there. Wanting to impress upon him that I was probably going to miss my ovulation day if this kept up, I started by saying "This is the second or third day that I've been trying, and-" He interrupted, "Let me stop you right there.

If you've been trying for two or three days, the best thing is probably to stop. More bedikot are only going to irritate you and aggravate whatever's going on. Just wait until it stops."

Huh?

I knew what he was referring to; I have certainly irritated myself towards the end of shiva neki'im, what with doing so many bedikot, and for that reason (among others) I've been given a heter to do fewer of them. But that wasn't what was going on here at all. This wasn't a scratch, it was a period that just wasn't over yet. "I really think it's stopping," I said. "I'm only going to try once today. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work."

"Oh. In that case, if it's old blood that's coming out, the best thing to do is try a douche. Of course you're cutting it close, it's almost yom tov and you need to wait a couple of hours after douching before you make another hefsek..." I tuned the rest of this out because I was too busy thinking, Huh? and No way!!

First of all, running out to the store to find a douche right before Yom Tov, then figuring out how to use it for the first time? No thank you. But more importantly, there's a reason it would be my first time. Some rabbis recommend douching, but others (including my own rabbi) warn that you can disturb the chemical balance in the vagina. This part of the body is designed to clean itself, and it doesn't particularly like artificial cleansing. I'm sure other people have good luck with this method, but me, I haven't had a yeast infection or any other in all the time I've been married, and I'd just as soon leave well enough alone.

I tried to bring things back on track. "OK, but if I do try a hefsek and I have a shaylah, can I bring it to show you on Yom Tov?" He said yes. All right. Phew. That was all I wanted to know, you know?

I respect this rabbi's vast knowledge and his many years of experience very much. But I am not a newlywed or a child, and I know my own body better than someone who has never met me before. And yet it took a great deal of effort to remind myself of this, to resist the impulse to bow to his guidance and get off the phone. Why would it possibly be a good idea to cut someone off the very first time they talk to you, and assume you already know what they're talking about?

Things went from bad to worse the next day, when somehow "any time is good" turned into knocking on his door in vain every two hours all afternoon, finally culminating in just desperately waiting on his porch in the hopes that he was either out or asleep, and would have to come in/out of the house on his way to mincha. By the time I caught him I was in a complete state. Not to mention that this encounter had to be in person, given that there was no way for him to call me, and I somehow ended up touching his hand while trying to show him which was the hefsek and which was the first bedikah, and... did I mention ugh?

He was trying to be so nice. Even his wife was trying to be so nice. I don't mean to blame him; I suppose it was just a mismatch of personalities. And I'm sure he wasn't at his best on the phone, rushing around two hours before Yom Tov; it was kind of him even to speak to me then. But these things matter, and even for someone committed like me, they color my experience of taharat hamishpacha and how I feel about the whole month so much - I can only imagine what effect it would have on someone who was trying to decide whether she wanted to keep these laws.

So far the one good thing that's happened this month is that I remembered to make an appointment in advance for my Friday night tevilah. (My third time in a row! I learn slow, but I do learn!) But despite the rabbi pronouncing my hefsek kosher that day, I'm almost surely going to ovulate before mikvah; in fact, judging by my usual symptoms I bet it's happening tomorrow. And as you also already know, I find Friday night tevilot especially difficult.

Who was it who said the month of their worst mikvah experience, they got pregnant? I don't normally put stock in things like that. But if any of you can make that come true? I will GLADLY accept. :)

Comments

On May 5, 2005 at 01:59 PM, Desde said:

Oh, eden, I second your ugh. I need to go Rav shopping, having left mine behind two moves ago, and I really really liked dealing with him. I've called him since, even with niddah shaylahs (the kind that can be answered over the phone, ie I'm scheduled to go to mikvah on an onah day due to some crazy staining... is that ok?) but getting bedikahs to him would involve the mail or 2 hours of driving, hopefully not to only find out that he's on vacation... and I'm just not willing.

For the record, I think I've conceived a day or two after ovulation, so don't give up yet. Umm, when is that D&C scheduled for? So don't get pregnant before that, ok?

On May 5, 2005 at 02:42 PM, eden said:

Thank you for the sympathy, Desde! I hope you can find someone closer to home.

The rabbi I send bedikot to is not my preferred posek, either, he's a member of a fairly different segment of the Jewish community nearby. But he has the (for me) crucial characteristics: Answering exactly what I ask him, no more no less. Not trying to solve problems I'm not even having. Not intruding himself into my life any more than necessary. Given how often I ask shaylahs - especially now that I've started trying for a hefsek on Day 5 every month, no matter what - I don't know how I'd manage otherwise.

For a more general or important question, I can and do call my preferred rabbi; but for time-sensitive yet routine questions, you really need someone local. Maybe you can ask around? The nicest rabbi to deal with might be someone you're not expecting.

As for conceiving two days after ovulation - from everything I've learned, that's unlikely, although I guess not impossible. You'd have to have the longest possible window between your LH surge and the release of your egg, and also the longest possible window during which the egg hung around waiting to be fertilized. Even assuming you are one of those lucky people, judging from my history I am fairly confident I'm not. I would bet both of my windows are on the short side: 6-12 hours, not 24 hours each.

But don't worry - if I get pregnant before the D&C, to heck with that polyp! I won't be getting my period for another nine months anyway, right?

On May 5, 2005 at 03:59 PM, Desde said:

OKay, so I wasn't actually charting temps or anything, and maybe I'm a little off on the relationship between fertile cervical mucous and ovulation timing. In fact, I probably am. Need to reread that book.

On May 12, 2005 at 07:53 AM, Vasserveibel said:

I just want you to know that you can definitely get pregnant for 2-3 days after "ovulation" and on the flip side, sperm can live in the vagina for a very, very long time. My infertility doctor says they have scientificly "proven" 6 days, but in my personal experience, when trying to date my first pregnancy, this doctor says I got "pregnant" *9* days after I last had relations with my husband. Sometimes they're determined little buggers.

And sorry it took me so long to comment, I'm just catching up on my reading from Pesach.

On May 12, 2005 at 10:54 AM, eden said:

Vasser, it is very true that sperm can live a long time, but the egg does not.

When you detect your LH surge with an ovulation test stick or blood test, you will ovulate sometime within the next 24 hours. After you release the egg, it can be fertilized for a maximum of 24 hours. You can see that two days is the longest you could have, after you detected that you were ovulating, and you'd have to be very lucky twice. Most people have a shorter chance than that.

If you know of someone who thinks they got pregnant 3 days after ovulation, they were probably estimating what day they ovulated by a much more imprecise method (like taking your basal temperature and checking your cervical mucus) than I am using.

I think you may be confused by the issue of sperm vs. egg viability. The "fertility window" is indeed 5-7 days, but all of those except the last day are BEFORE ovulation.

That's because the egg is around such a short time, and the sperm live so much longer, that your best chance for getting pregnant is when the sperm are already there beforehand, waiting for the egg to be released. If you first try to catch the egg after ovulation, you have a much smaller chance of success.

I hope this explanation clears things up.

On May 12, 2005 at 11:01 AM, eden said:

I should note that of course it's possible a particular woman would be a statistical outlier. I don't mean to deny that someone could ever get pregnant 3 days after ovulation, just to say that it would be very unusual.

If someone is trying NOT to get pregnant, it's probably wise to add a good cushion to the fertility window in both directions. But if someone is trying TO get pregnant, it's not good advice to tell them they have such a long time after ovulation. That's why I wanted to speak up.

On October 14, 2005 at 10:52 AM, sara said:

That's so hard; it's too bad you don't have a rabbi to really understand and work with you.

Discuss this post on our message boards.