The Emporer has no cloths

Posted by fromBeneath at 06:39 PM on September 21, 2005

What do you do if you go away on holiday towards the end of your 5 days and you don't have a bedikah cloth? And there's nothing you can makeshift into a cloth. However did our foremothers manage without ready-made cloths? Oh, that's right - that was before the rabbis mandated that a woman couldn't possibly know when her own period ended without some sort of external gauge.

Am I supposed to wait until I return from vaca and can do a bedikah? And why does the bedikah have to be "clean" anyway? As long as it's not bright red, indicating fresh blood, or saturated with brown, indicating my lining is still shedding, what does it matter? If my examination shows I'm not still actively menstruating, that should be enough. If I can be enstrusted to ensure that my mikvah prep is kosher (controlling over-zealous attendants notwithstanding), why can't I be trusted to know if my bedikah is okay?

Okay, rant over.

Of course, I'm not waiting until my holiday is over. I know full well when my period ended, and I'm counting my 7 days. I'll do a bedikah when I get home, just to be official.

Ironically, I'm surrounded by ocean, and if we were staying long enough for my mikvah night - all this ocean, and there's not a single safe place to immerse.

Comments

On September 21, 2005 at 08:01 PM, Avigayil said:

If you are wearing white underwear during your shiva nekiim you can do use this as a bedika cloth! I actually once used it in a pinch (and thought it was gross and crazy) and then actually heard this given as advice by a yoetzet during a lecture.

Also, it's not a matter of trusting you or not trusting you. It could be that you are still bleeding but that the color is a perfectly acceptable one. The real purpose of showing questionable bedikot to the Rabbi is to shorten your nidda period, not to lengthen it.

On September 21, 2005 at 08:45 PM, sara said:

Oh, yes, I prefer the white underwear since it's much softer from all the washing. Think "husband's undershirts" too!

It's just to explain to the rov if I have a shaylah, that's all...

On September 22, 2005 at 10:44 AM, representing said:

You can use a while pillowcase. Hotels rarely count pillowcases. Take it and use the edge, or tear it in pieces. I did this when I had unexpected breakthrough bleeding during my honeymoon :-(

On September 22, 2005 at 11:27 AM, sara said:

Before I got married, the kallah teacher said to takeh use a white pillowcase to cut up for bedikah clothes, since we had no other way to get them (they were only sold at the mikvah at that time), but I found it very thick and uncomfortable.

On September 22, 2005 at 08:17 PM, talia said:

i've found men's handkerchiefs work well. they're much nicer (softer) when washed, but in a pinch .. they generally are available in many places (99c stores, drug stores, supermarkets, etc)

On September 26, 2005 at 02:38 PM, Shifra said:

I've done the hanky thing. :-) I ran into a luggage shop in the airport and bought 2 hankys right before I left on a flight to Israel (the cloths were in the checked luggage, not with me).

Can you really start to count your 7 clean days without a hefsek? I once spotted and then tried counting without doing a new hefsek and my Rav made me add the extra days that I didn't do the hefsek because he said the clean days aren't valid until I make a hefsek or some sort of bedikah.

On September 28, 2005 at 07:31 PM, Ricky said:

Yikes. Honey, I don't want to tell you what to do but I'm pretty sure that without a bedikah your 7 days don't count at all. This is between you & your conscience but I think you should talk to a Rabbi you respect about it. Anyhow, didn't you have anything white with you at all?

On September 28, 2005 at 08:11 PM, SARA said:

Am I correct in understanding that there was NO hefsek tahara & no moch dochuk?

I have heard of rabbonim having the ladies "start over" if they did only the hefsek tahara and no moch dochuk.............

I mean, that's what all of this is about, proving that the bleeding has stopped. If there is no hefsek tahara & no moch dochuk, that what do you have?

On September 28, 2005 at 10:23 PM, eden said:

Sara, the cases you're thinking of are most likely where the woman had a fresh flow earlier on the same day she made the hefsek. In that case the moch is more strongly required. Otherwise, a moch is not me'akev -- if you didn't do it, it does not invalidate your count. In fact women sometimes get a heter to skip the moch for a month, or several. It's not in the same category as the hefsek tahara.

More detail here.

fromBeneath, I hope your rabbi finds a way to make this work out for you! I wasn't sure I understood what you meant by "my examination": did you make a bedikah with something colored? Or even with toilet paper? Maybe there's something he can work with there.

I gotta say I find the idea of simply knowing when my period ends very appealing too. :-) Of course it would never work for me, since my cycle is so irregular...

On September 29, 2005 at 12:47 PM, SARA said:

A fresh flow? Doesn't everyone start counting as soon as she's able?

Who doesn't have a fresh flow that very day?

On September 29, 2005 at 01:35 PM, lurkermom said:

I have a heter to never do a moch. My rav said it is not necessary. But no hefsek tahara? I'm pretty sure that is a no go.

On September 29, 2005 at 07:28 PM, eden said:

Who doesn't have a fresh flow that very day?

I believe my rav said "fresh flow" = red, not a questionable color. Some women only see a brownish color on the last day. And women who stop bleeding altogether on Day 4 or 3 can't make a hefsek that same day. Not to mention the cases where a woman became a niddah not because of a full period, but a medical procedure or a fluke one-day flow.

Anyway, this is probably a tangent to fB's post.

On October 2, 2005 at 01:55 PM, desde said:

Actually, eden, I think you can make a hefsek taharah on day 4 or 3... you just can't start counting your 7 days until after day 5. One of my T"H sefarim said something about "up to 3 days in advance" was okay for a hefsek... of course, if you bleed again after that, you'd need to start over again, and the counting gets tricky if it doesn't start the same day as the hefsek is made, so it's probably not recommended on a normal basis.

On October 2, 2005 at 05:43 PM, eden said:

Huh, that's fascinating! I never heard that. Do you have to start wearing white from the hefsek on, or not until the end of fifth day? When do you do the moch? Not that any of this is physiologically possible for me, but I'm curious...

Sorry, fB, this tangent seems pretty well entrenched. ;-)

On October 7, 2005 at 04:18 PM, desde said:

I'll look it up and get you a better answer, IY"H, after Shabbos, but I can answer the when do you make the moch question now: you probably don't.

One thing my kallah teacher emphasized was (assuming you can, of course) trying for a hefsek around lunchtime, so that if you miss shkiah, b'dieved the one at lunchtime can count. I asked about the moch, maybe then, maybe in another conversation/class, (it was many years ago!) and she said something like, "oh, well, if you want to do one, it's a very good minhag," giving me the impression that she doesn't do them! She also explained that if you're relying on the lunchtime bedikah, that you don't do the moch, since it can only be done between sunset and full-dark.

There are times when a moch is obligatory, and I don't remember off hand when that is, but most of the time it's just a minhag.

So I felt comfortable dropping it when I found that it irritated me, was extremely uncomfortable, (I couldn't walk with it in) and often caused me to lose a day from the internal irritation. Forget that!

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